Cement board is readily available and relatively inexpensive (about $10 for a 3 x 5-ft. sheet). The colour is different. Self-leveling underlayment has many of the same advantages as a dry-pack mortar bed but doesnt require as much skill to install. The manual can be found here: http://floorelf.com/waterproof, I would say unless you are experienced in working with Schluter-Kerdi waterproofing membrane kit, then I would say work with an easier waterproofing approach, either liquid waterproofing or a combination of liquid and traditional waterproofing (plastic covering the wood frame). Can be cut to size easily using a utility knife. For the floor I make a dry mix mud base and then the Kerdi membrane. When installing KERDI with unmodified thin-set mortar over particularly dry and porous substrates, it is recommended to wet the substrate first, in order to help prevent premature drying or skinning of the thin-set mortar. RedGard can be applied to cement board panels in two ways: Roll it on the wall with a 3/4-inch nap roller or spray it on the wall. Site design / logo 2023 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA. Let's start! The grid lines on the surface are incredibly helpful for installation and making neat cuts. Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4HjHT6_cUo, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEt6irjJCI0, My master suite addition & full bath to 1/2 bath renovation. Also are you saying that you wet ("booking the Kerdi") the Kerdi, as well? Cement board is a mineral-based board, usually 30 inches by 60 inches, that is used as a lower, dimensionally stable surface for installing ceramic tile, porcelain tile, or stonework. Well, I'm going to give you three different ways to seal the backer board at the tub flange. One of the company says they are going to apply kerdi membrane on the drywall, then tiles onto the kerdi membrane, and as such as cement backboard would not be required. It works well, is what Schluter recommends and I've never had an issue with it. However, if installed on drywall, it only protects one side. Send us an email: , What type of thin-set mortar should I use when installing Schluter, Using a Prefabricated Shower Tray and Ramp. Anytime Mongo. When it comes to selecting thinset for cement board, there are a few important factors to consider. Why you use cement board? Je peux rejeter les cookies non essentiels en cliquant sur Grer mes prfrences . Additionally, if the cement board isnt waterproof, it can also cause mold and mildew issues, as well as dry wall damage from the moisture seeping through. Waterproof showers are the trend today, so RedGard is an excellent alternative to cement boards that act as vapor barriers. This is necessary to ensure that the membrane will adhere properly to the drywall. Personnaliser mon exprience l'aide de cookies, Landscape Architects & Landscape Designers, Outdoor Lighting & Audio/Visual Specialists, epoxy or marine paint over greenboard for my shower walls (not tile), Need advice on bathroom remodel - using hardiebacker boards, HELP! Builder saying he doesn't want to put my trim tile in here. Why do small African island nations perform better than African continental nations, considering democracy and human development? In general, modified thin-set mortar is not recommended to set ceramic and stone tile, including large format tiles, over the KERDI membrane. By: Author Olin Wade (Remodel or Move Stuff). You troweled on thinset combing it out then pressed the Kerdi into place? Should I use Kerdi membrane or cement backerboard? It could take longer if the space is particularly wet or humid. First, felt paper is stapled to the floor and covered with expanded metal lath. LONDON. I have watched it done 10-15 times, have good skills, and if I tried to make large mortar walls myself it might like a little kid threw up concrete Should I use Kerdi membrane or cement backerboard? The surface of Wedi is perfect for bonding. document.getElementById("ak_js_1").setAttribute("value",(new Date()).getTime()); Your email address will not be published. When installed, Kerdi Board creates a substrate that is level, flat, square, plumb, and dimensionally stable. Kerdi can be installed first on drywall or cement board. Cement board is particularly vulnerable to water damage, so waterproofing can help protect it and help it last longer. A place where magic is studied and practiced? Any competent tile contractor would float the wall in mortar giving you a stronger, level, perfectly flat, and square surface to properly install tile. 4. Maybe try another brand of thinset? But I can't give you a +1 because telling someone to mortar all the walls in a large shower is like telling them to make an ice sculpture. Home Improvement Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for contractors and serious DIYers. if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[728,90],'remodelormove_com-mobile-leaderboard-1','ezslot_24',166,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-mobile-leaderboard-1-0');If cement board is not waterproof, it can negatively impact the integrity of the tile that is installed on top of it, and can lead to a variety of issues. Furthermore, if you're working in an older home KERDI-BOARD fits better than cement board in odd spaces. However if installed on drywall it is only protecting one side. Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, and our products. The 30-in. The cement board needs to be clean, free of debris, and dry. We sponge water onto the cement board. We also found that using a heavy rolling pin worked wonders for really setting the Kerdi. On top of that, fiber cement board is even more brittle than standard cement board, so you have to be extra careful to keep screws at least an inch from the edge to avoid breaking the board. On the 'rolling pin', it actually wasn't the kitchen kind, but rather a very heavy metal roller DH had from some sort of fabrication table. Allow the primer to dry completely before proceeding with the KERDI installation. What precautions should I take installing tile on a backerboard in an area surrounded by cement? To line niche shelves, for instance. This will ensure a strong bond between the KERDI membrane and the substrate. These multifunctional tile substrate and building panels are thus perfect for creating bonded waterproofing assemblies with tile coverings. Jessica considers herself a home improvement and design enthusiast. After today's tutorial, you'll gain the confidence to transform your old bathroom into a new space. We installed cement board on the walls, and today when we attempted to apply the Kerdi membrane we could not get it to adhere. By clicking Post Your Answer, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy. Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. KERDI was developed as a waterproofing membrane to be used in . Is this overkill? x 48 in. However, you do still have to take care to waterproof the seams and the fastener penetrations to create a waterproof assembly. . There are many different types of underlayment to choose from, but they all serve the same purpose. The core isnt waterproof, but it can withstand getting wet without falling apart, so even if your waterproofing system leaks, the board will stay intact. Cement board, Wedi board, Kerdi board, Hardibacker, Densshield, Durock, Permabase, or Wonder board . If you do not already have the hardi up, I recommend using real cement board (Hardi is a fiber-cement) or drywall. In a perfect job, it will waterproof. With that said, lets take a look at the importance of choosing the right tile substrate, the options you have, and which tile underlayment material you should choose Kerdi Board or cement board? Step 1: Measure the area. . if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[250,250],'remodelormove_com-narrow-sky-1','ezslot_27',168,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-narrow-sky-1-0');if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[250,250],'remodelormove_com-narrow-sky-1','ezslot_28',168,'0','1'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-narrow-sky-1-0_1');.narrow-sky-1-multi-168{border:none!important;display:block!important;float:none!important;line-height:0;margin-bottom:15px!important;margin-left:auto!important;margin-right:auto!important;margin-top:15px!important;max-width:100%!important;min-height:250px;min-width:250px;padding:0;text-align:center!important}Waterproofing should also be done on other areas in the shower as well such as the corners, window sills and other areas where water can easily accumulate. Sloped Shower Tray KST1220/1525 - The Home Depot. It is easier to cut than cement board, it is mold resistant, and it has a built-in moisture barrier. #3 This is a DIY site. Kerdi Board is expensive, but I can justify it because it saves time, and it's a joy to use. Contact us: 888-472-4588
Schluter SET, ALL-SET, FAST-SET or an unmodified thin-set mortar must be used to construct all KERDI seams to ensure watertightperformance of the system. Schulter Ditra is manufactured by Schluter Systems and is a 1/8 thick polyethylene uncoupling membrane that is specifically designed for tile installations. Is it ok to fasten a shower surround to Schluter Kerdi curb? Putting this stuff on walls is difficult and time . When I tried putting up the first sheets, which were only 36" x 39", and even though I had SOAKED the hardi, to the point water was pooling on the floor, the thinset was already drying before I got the Kerdi up, and I couldn't get it to adhere properly no matter how hard I tried. . First Kerdi can be installed on drywall or cement board. A quality underlayment will also serve as a waterproof barrier between the subfloor and the tile surface. You still use metal lath, but then mix bags of powder and pour the soupy mix onto the floor. link to What Kind Of Paint For Garage Walls? Yes, KERDI membrane will stick to cement board. A lot of folks like using cement board but it's heavy and requires a waterproofing membrane over it. If any is found, wait a few more hours and then re-inspect. ), Minimising the environmental effects of my dyson brain, Finite abelian groups with fewer automorphisms than a subgroup. x 5-ft. and 3 x 5-ft. sheets of cement board are sized for efficient use around bathtubs and showers. Hang the cement boar. RedGard, on the other hand, is a liquid waterproofing membrane made by Custom Building Products. It is designed to form a waterproof layer between cement board and tiles, helping create a watertight installation. You can apply it on PVC, metal, slabs, walls, and floors. When applying the primer, make sure to cover all surfaces thoroughly, as these will be completely covered by the KERDI membrane. Yes, Schluter membranes can go over cement board. Aquadefense is approved by IAPMO for use as a shower pan liner, but be sure to check your local building codes, as some areas of the country still require the PVC liner. 3. Given the complexity, its easy to see why even experienced tile setters avoid dry-pack mortar and use backer board instead when they can. #1 - Backer board has nothing to do with HD or any other big box. Or will the Kerdi membrane (with seams taped with kerdi band) prevent each board from moving independently? No, you do not need to install a vapor barrier, as Kerdi Board is the vapor barrier. Additionally, seal the space around any pipes and fixtures that can be found in the shower. Yes, Hardie board needs to be waterproofed. Once this is done, continue the installation by following the directions for the particular Kerdi product being used. Home Improvement Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for contractors and serious DIYers. When doing so, it is important to ensure that the drywall surface is clean and free of dust, grease, and loose paint. I used this to seal a 3 1/2 by 6 1/2 foot shower with 7 foot walls. No, that doesn't sound right. Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, and our products. I barely touch it with my hands before going to the tape knife. When it comes to using thinset with Schluter products, the Schluter-Systems website recommends using unmodified thin-set mortars specifically designed for use with Schluter membranes. Kerdi board is a kind of waterproofer because these kinds of boards are made of XPS foam. Preparing drywall for KERDI membrane requires a few important steps to ensure a successful application. To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers. Creative, C'mon over for a beer! This is a very effective and popular method of installing tile, and one that ensures the tile doesnt crack. To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. This allows for future compression and an area at the corner where things are more forgiving. Do I have to use Kerdi tape with Ditra membrane? The tub flange can really be a pain in the butt when installing a tile tub surround. Installation instructions vary depending on the type of Kerdi membrane being used, but typically the membrane is applied directly to a clean, dry plywood surface that is free from dust, dirt, and other debris. Then cement, sand and water are mixed together to a crumbly consistency and floated over the lath to form a flat surface. There is a product called Kerdiboard you might want to look into. Kerdi is not a user friendly product, and when you shrink your working time down it is downright stressful. We are DIYers who have already remodeled one bathroom successfully, but this is our first time using The Schluter shower system. I also used the Kerdi drain. I appreciate your help and your quick response. You just need a hammer and wonderbar for the walls. More waste, yes, but I think you have to have a LOT of practice to hang those huge sheets like mongo does. Required fields are marked *. When screwed to the framing, thin strips of cement board fracture more easily than thin strips of fiber-cement. KERDI features a modified polyethylene (PEVA) core with non-woven polypropylene on both sides to anchor the membrane in the thin-set mortar. Installation is simple- just trowel a layer of thin-set adhesive on the floor and embed the mat in it, then fill the cavities with thin-set. Significantly more time and effort is required to ensure a quality bond when using a modified thinset adhesive with KERDI, and for this reason, it is usually not recommended. Yes, Kerdi membrane can be installed over plywood. I think I'll try using the thinned mixture of Redgard and then try the Kerdi membrane again. The completed assembly takes the place of more traditional backer board when installed over 3/4-inch wood subfloors. A complete schluter shower kit is like $700-$900 depending on the size - this includes the pitched foam shower pan. Applying a conventional cement backer board to such a structure is almost impossible. We use a pump action garden sprayer and its usually dry by the time we clean the sprayer. Rolling pin, good, now I can throw away my magnesium float.LOLCasey. I still wet the walls first. Because it can let some moisture wick through it, you have two choices: put a moisture barrier behind it to protect the structure, or, waterproof the front of it. All it takes is the right preparation. I would get someone else. How do I align things in the following tabular environment? Kerdi really offers very little advantage over hardiboard plus membrane. To create a watertight shower assembly, we installed Schluter's Kerdi membrane over the drywall, just as we would for tile.Write by:. Why does the plumbing rough need to be moved? Keep in mind, that, just to be safe, most professionals choose to install a waterproofing membrane on top of the cement board when installing in wet locations like tub surrounds or showers. A good rule of thumb is 24 hours per inch of thickness, then one more day on top of that to be sure. First Kerdi can be installed on drywall or cement board. It worked well - just like wallpapering. It is important to waterproof Hardie board to make it more water-resistant, as well as to protect the materials from the elements. Overall, waterproofing behind and around shower tile is a critical part of any installation to ensure that the area is adequately protected from water and moisture damage. If you are good with a trowel and understand how to set up and use screeds as a guide for leveling or forming the mortar, pouring a traditional mortar bed may be a good alternative to tile backer board, especially on uneven or sloping floors. Thanks for contributing an answer to Home Improvement Stack Exchange! Yes. No bulges either, but definetly no thin spots.-Not paying attention to the direction of the comb. This thread is 9 years old and it's the Hardi board that's thirsty not the Kerdi. It is a topical waterproofing layer that is put over the substrate to keep water from getting to the wood frame and nails. Backerboard plus a waterproofing membrane like Redgard is all that is needed for tub surrounds with thinset then tile. That means that you do not have to rely on a surface membrane or worry about the board failing if the core is exposed to water. Look at it this way; Withe Kerdi, you either trust it or you don't. I have used kerdi, and I have applied it over cement board. Why are physically impossible and logically impossible concepts considered separate in terms of probability? The 1/4-inch-thick board is typically used on floors and countertops. Do new devs get fired if they can't solve a certain bug? Prime first to create a flat, uniform surface that is free of dust, grease and other debris. Overall, putting Kerdi over regular drywall can be done, with the proper steps in place to properly install the membrane and its components. Recovering from a blunder I made while emailing a professor, Minimising the environmental effects of my dyson brain. In order to determine which tile underlayment is right for your project, you need to know which issue youre trying to solve whether its preventing subfloor cracks from transferring to the tile, soundproofing, moisture protection, or providing more rigidity to the tile.